Exploring Belonging with Charlie Nelms and Philip Amerson
In this compelling episode of "To Be and Do," hosts Dr. Brad Miller and Philip Amerson delve into a meaningful conversation with Dr. Charlie Nelms, renowned servant leader, philanthropist, and advocate for equity and excellence, particularly in the realm of education for historically marginalized communities. Dr. Nelms shares his transformative journey and insights, offering inspiration and wisdom for fostering belonging and creating positive societal change.
Here are three key takeaways from the episode:
- The Power of Place and Memory: Philip Amerson recounts a heartwarming experience crossing the Ohio River, which triggers memories of learning life-changing lessons at Scribner Park, particularly the story of the Good Samaritan shared by Miss Stella Newhouse. This evocation emphasizes the importance of places and experiences that shape our understanding of kindness and community. Dr. Nelms builds on this idea, encouraging listeners to reflect on personal landmarks and the lessons of compassion and service ingrained in those spaces.
- Education as the Engine of Opportunity: Dr. Nelms passionately speaks about the pivotal role of education as a means of transformation and progress, especially for those not born into privilege. Growing up in the Arkansas Delta, his education opened doors, allowing him to impact countless lives positively. He critiques recent challenges to DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) initiatives, stressing the importance of remaining committed to equity beyond structural constructs. Dr. Nelms calls for continued investment in education across all levels (P-16) to foster social mobility, economic opportunity, and a stronger democracy.
- Perseverance Through Historical Context: One of Dr. Nelms’ profound messages is to avoid discouragement amid societal setbacks, instead drawing strength from the long history of struggle and progress dating back to 1619. By recounting personal anecdotes, including the impactful influence of his mother, Dr. Nelms underscores the resilience needed to face today's challenges. His narrative serves as a reminder that history provides essential lessons for navigating contemporary issues and sustaining hope.
Join us on this journey of encouragement, empowerment, and belonging as we weave connections among people and promote a flourishing society. To learn more and engage with our community, visit belongingexchange.org. Be inspired to "Be" and "Do" within your community today.
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Clock strikes ten.
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Coffee time again while the world is
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rushing to its judgment day. Judgment
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day. Welcome to the
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To Be Do podcast from
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the Belonging Exchange with Philip Amerson.
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To Be Do has a mission to
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foster a sense of belonging, strengthening relationships
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through storytelling and shared exchanged
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experiences. A belonging exchange, if you will.
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Indeed, our website is
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belongingexchange.org. Now it's your turn
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to be, do, as we enter the Belonging
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Exchange. My name is Brad Miller, the producer
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cohost of the To Be Do podcast
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from the Belonging Exchange. One of the segments that Phil Emerson likes
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to have is to have a segment that we like to call
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the heartfelt segment, where Phil or his
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guest shares something that is on their mind, which is either a
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heartburn or a heartwarming thing that is
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attracting them right now. So before we get into our great discussion with
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our guest today, Phil, what is your
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heartburn or heart warming thought for
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today? I wanna share a heartwarm
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a heartwarming experience, and and it may seem strange that I
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would, go to this place. But it actually,
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was a time recently when I was crossing the
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Ohio River coming back, to Indiana from
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Louisville, Kentucky. And, the the bridge there, the
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Sherman Minton Bridge, is under construction.
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And I guess it was because the traffic slowed down that I
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remembered that just below where that bridge,
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is today on the Indiana side of the river was
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where old Scribner Park was. And it was in
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Scribner Park that miss Stella
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Newhouse would gather children around,
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under those sycamore trees in
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that park, and she would bring us cookies and
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punch, and we would play games, and she would tell us
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stories from the gospel. She told
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me the story that I remember now, and it's
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important, central to me, the story we call the
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Good Samaritan. So
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I carry that as a heartwarming experience.
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And I realize that as I travel
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around the state and nation, I come
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across a place others have taught me where I've
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had these great moments of learning and enlightenment.
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I care I I care about your knowing
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that you can do that as well. As you travel
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in the weeks and days, months ahead,
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Think about those places as you pass by
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where someone helped you see the world in a
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more Christian, a more Jesus following way.
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Thank you, Phil, for that enlightening
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heartwarming challenge to all of us to pay
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attention to the power of place.
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We'll be back with another heartwarming
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message from our special guest today following the
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interview. In our interview today, Phil Emerson talks with
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doctor Charlie Nelms. Doctor Charlie Nelms is a servant
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leader, a philanthropist, activist, public intellectual who
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has devoted more than half of a century to advancing equity and
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excellence for blacks and those from historically marginalized
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backgrounds. A native of the Arkansas Delta, he has
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served as a chancellor of universities in Indiana, Michigan, and
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North Carolina. His highly acclaimed memoir, From
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Cotton Fields to University Leadership, All Eyes on Charlie,
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was published by the Indiana University Press in 02/2019.
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All royalties from the sale of his memoir and other books are
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contributed to charitable causes. He currently serves as
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president in residence with the United Negro College Fund, UNCF,
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president in residence with the American Association of State
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Colleges and Universities, and as a mentor to current
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and aspiring university presidents. You're gonna love this conversation
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between Phil Amerson and Doctor. Charlie Nelms. So let's
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get started. Welcome again to
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the Be and Do podcast. It's part of the Belonging
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Exchange where we seek to reweave the
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brokenness in our society, to weave connections among
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people, and to help our common life flourish.
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And today, I'm delighted to have good friend, doctor
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Charlie Nelms, with me. I always wanna call him doctor, and he always
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says it's just Charlie. But, welcome welcome, Charlie.
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Thank you. Good to be with you. Great to see you.
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We're living in interesting times to say the least.
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I'm afraid to read the newspaper. Well, I I try not to
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read it too every day, but It's all
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good. You know? You have to stay informed. Yeah. Yeah. You
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do. Well, one of the one of the interesting things as we
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come up to February 2025, and
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I'm aware that this is Black History Month. And it also
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is a time when it seems that a lot of
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what I just assumed was normal about
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learning about the past and and correcting some of the
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misinformation that's out there is,
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being challenged. I I'm I'm not a
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real believer in just any
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language. So DEI, I know, has its problems, but it
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also represented something pretty significant
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in our nation. I'm wondering your thoughts about what's
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happening there. Well, first of all, I wanna start on something very
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positive, and that is just I'm sorry. Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No. To
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encourage people not to be discouraged. There you are.
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To encourage people not to be discouraged because we've been here before.
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You know, since 1619, we've been dealing with the same issue
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in some configuration or another. Okay?
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You know, after the signing of the emancipation proclamation, you
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know, and all of the years in between that in 1963,
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'60 '4, okay, and then '63 to, you
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know, '98 and then now. So don't be discouraged. Okay?
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There's there's a way forward, and we must be that
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light that light to illuminate
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the path. Okay? So that I just wanna say that. Well, I know
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you Arkansas was where you grew up. That is right. The
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heart of the Arkansas Delta. Yeah. So you've
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you've seen a lot of change over the years. I
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certainly have. I've seen a lot of change, and and thankfully,
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I've been in a I've had an opportunity to be part of that change. You
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know? And so that's why I'm encouraged despite all of
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it, all of the turbulence. I'm still in encouraged.
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Now it's harder to be encouraged some days than others. Okay?
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And these last, three weeks have been very, very challenging in terms
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of, encouragement. But I have to keep I don't have the option of
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I just don't have the option of being tired or, you know,
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discouraged continually. Right. Well, I
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didn't let the folks listening in who don't already know you, and I'll
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bet many of them do, know what an
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accomplished person you are. I'm chancellor at
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North Carolina Central University. You were chancellor at a couple of
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regional campuses here in Indiana University and also a
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vice president. And I don't know how many vice presidency you
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sees you've had, but, you are a leader in
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higher education. What what are your
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thoughts about the future of education
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and how we might act in positive ways.
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Sure. So so thank you very much, Phil. You know, first
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of all, I know firsthand that education is the engine of
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opportunity. And unless you're born wealthy in this country,
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You don't get a chance to enjoy the quality of life to which
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many Americans aspire. And that's true for whether you come
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from a rural community, an urban community, whether you're black, white,
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gay, straight, whatever. Okay? I mean, education
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is that engine of opportunity. And so
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growing up in the Deep South, I had an opportunity to avail
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myself, of an education that not
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only transformed my life, but it transformed the lives
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of so many others with whom I've had an opportunity to work and come
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in contact with over the years. And despite all of the
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setbacks and the resegregation of American higher education
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and the move to to limit our efforts to
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pursue a more equitable America via
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education. It's just,
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it's sort of a setback, if you will, a little bit.
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But we don't have to step back just
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because politicians and others are trying to push us back.
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Okay? And so it all it all depends on the footing that we
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have and the values that we hold and our willingness
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to remain and stay focused on those values. Okay.
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And not to confuse the structure of things with the substance of
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things. Okay. Right. So DEI is a structural
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kind of concept, you know, structurally. Equity, though,
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is a substantive kind of thing. And what we have to do is to make
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sure that we stay with the substance no matter what
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we call it or how we organize it.
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And I'm a little afraid now that folk
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there's a little too much focus on the structure.
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Okay. And at a time when we need to recommit
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ourselves to the substance of the work because you see, we were pursuing
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a more equitable America. Okay, long before the concept
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of DEI. DEI is only about twenty five years old as a
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concept and as a construct. But we've been pursuing equity work in
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this country for a very long time. And, fortunately, I've
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had an opportunity to be a beneficiary of that work and also to be
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a part of it. I your comments remind me of an article
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I read recently by professor Shepley at Princeton
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who has talked about the threat to democracy that she
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sees underway right now. But, she says
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that's precisely the reason we should, one, stay engaged,
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and number two, where we can offer a little friction, a little
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different point of view from the predominant one. Does that make
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sense to you? It makes perfect sense to me. Okay? I mean, I think
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this is the worst time to disengage. Okay? And I think
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part of our engagement has to be rooted in the history. Okay? That's
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why I feel so strongly about history. And, just yesterday, I
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posted something saying that we don't need permission from white
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partisan politicians to celebrate black history.
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We don't need permission to learn our history. Okay?
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Because we know before the advent of a public education for black people in
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this country, there were these the rural schools that were
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affiliated with churches throughout the South.
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Julius Rosenwald, for example, the president and CEO of Sears Roebuck and
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Company started over 5,300 small
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rural schools throughout the Southern States. Wow. And I take one of
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those Rosenwald schools. But but again, so so what we need to
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do is is to embed a knowledge has to be rooted
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in a historical understanding, not just in a
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contemporary celebration of contributions.
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Right. And and you and I happen to both be
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United Methodists, but we have other backgrounds. But I was
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thinking as you were speaking, you know, the United Methodist Church
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has just in The United States a 20 institutions
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of higher education. I think there are nine HBCUs
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that are united eight or nine that are United Methodist related.
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So this may be a time to be stepping up and supporting that work
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in new ways. Absolutely. In fact, there are 11, schools that
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are part of the Black College Fund, which is affiliated, of course, with United
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Methodist Church. And I've had the good fortune of working with
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those, many of those institutions via the United Negro
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College Fund and the Black College Fund. And so now is
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the time, I think, for us to invest must much more
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in higher in education period. Okay? I mean, p 16
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education, not just higher education because that's gonna be
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our pathway forward. Okay? And that is, I believe, that
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education. And I think there's an opportunity for HBCUs
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to play an even a more central role in
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terms of social mobility, economic opportunity, and the
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strengthening of democracy in this country. Wow. Okay. And and
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I'm looking forward to being continuing to be a part of that. Yeah.
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That's great. You're you're the one that just used the pathway
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forward along your path. I'll bet there have been times when
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something has helped you continue, maybe a sacred
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artifact that you go back to and think about. Do you have
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something like that that you would share with us? Oh, absolutely. I have
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lots and lots of artifacts. But one one thing that I did, my mother
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years old and she lived independently on our family farm until she
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was 85 and had a first stroke. And she had a major stroke and
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they said she'd never be able to walk or talk again. And she proved
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them wrong. She made a comeback.
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Recording of my mama. I did a recording, and I asked
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her about what life had been like for her and what advice she had for
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her grandchildren and her great grandchildren. And and I made a a tape of that.
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Children. And, and I made a tape of that and
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I have kept that. Okay. And when
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I would have these moments of temporary
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discouragement at Indiana university and other places,
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I would take that tape and I would walk around and I would listen to
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my mother's, you know, okay. And people will
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see me smiling and they wouldn't know what I was smiling about,
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But that just gave me so it's given me so much strength and
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comfort over the years to keep on keeping on. Okay? Wow. Because
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by the time I got to Indiana University and Columbia University, my mama
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had already convinced me that and all of her children that we could be
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whatever we wanted to be. And I believe that. So
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so I had that little moment of dis disappointment is discouragement,
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but my mama. Okay. So I just always kept that.
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And I prayed it for my son, our son. And so but, anyway, this that's
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one of them. Powerful, powerful story. Thank you,
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doctor Charlie Nelms, for sharing with us today. We'll look
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forward to hearing from you again in the future. This is Philip Amerson
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with the Belonging Exchange. And thank
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you, Philip and Charlie, for that for that really powerful
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conversation. And as Phil indicated, Charlie will
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be Charlie Nelms will be back with us again on our upcoming
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episode of the To Be Do podcast.
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And now as promised, Charlie is going to share with us a
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heartwarming moment from his life.
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I had the good fortune of being at Lincoln University
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in Pennsylvania, the institution from which,
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Lexington Hughes and Thurgood Marshall both
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graduated, Cap Calloway of other people. And I had
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an opportunity to be there for the announcement of a gift
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from the Lilly Endowment to Thurgood Marshall College Fund.
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And it was in the same room where
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Thurgood Marshall and his debate team prepared, to debate
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predominantly white teams around the country and to win.
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And it was at the time when a number of negative orders
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were being signed that would undo some understanding and
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appreciation for that history. And for that moment for that
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moment that I was in that library where where where Thurgood
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Marshall once walked and studied and all of that kind of
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thing, it was just, it was powerful. And there was
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a student there who spoke, who accepted the gift and so on and so forth,
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one of the acceptance, speakers. And it was just,
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it was just powerful, impactful.
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Now that you have experienced the Be Do
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podcast from the Belonging Exchange with Philip
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Amerson. It's your turn to be,
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do. Be the hands of the strong and
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do community together. You can
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start by sharing the Be Do podcast
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in your community and follow the Be Do
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podcast with Philip Amerson at
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belongingexchange.org.
